Still shocking, 31 years later
One of my commenters has been known to kvetch that, for all my complaints about Orthodox Judaism's faults, Orthodoxy still offers a wonderful lifestyle that helps one avoid some of the more egregious excesses of the secular culture. (September 3, 2008 update: I remembered that comment, but couldn't find it 'til yesterday--see comments here.) On that point, I agree. Here's an illustration of just how right that commenter is:
Shortly after I got married, I was told this startling bit of "wisdom" (quoth she sarcastically) by one of my then-co-workers: "Oh, you're in heaven now, but just wait--in another year or two, you'll be sleeping around like the rest of us."
Call me naive, if you wish, but I was stunned. Recounting that conversation to my husband, I said, "What's the point in being married if you're going to sleep around anyway?"
Thirty-one years of marriage later, I'm still of the same opinion.
Whatever complaints I may have against Orthodox Judaism, Orthodox practice does include a requirement to respect others--and oneself.
Shortly after I got married, I was told this startling bit of "wisdom" (quoth she sarcastically) by one of my then-co-workers: "Oh, you're in heaven now, but just wait--in another year or two, you'll be sleeping around like the rest of us."
Call me naive, if you wish, but I was stunned. Recounting that conversation to my husband, I said, "What's the point in being married if you're going to sleep around anyway?"
Thirty-one years of marriage later, I'm still of the same opinion.
Whatever complaints I may have against Orthodox Judaism, Orthodox practice does include a requirement to respect others--and oneself.
posted by Shira Salamone at 10:38 AM
9 Comments:
Shira, are you seriously asserting that Conservative and Reform Judaism have no problems with infidelity? Even if your co-worker was a Conservative or Reform Jew, she is hardly representative. That would be like saying that Orthodox Jews who cheat or lie or molest are representative of OJ.
Every form of Judaism requires that one respect others and respect themselves.
Unfortunately, some Jews, no matter what form their Judaism takes, Reform, Orthodox, Conservative, or any other, don't respect others and don't respect themselves. I would not expect there to be less disrespect within the Orthodox community than any other. Depending on the type of disrespect, there might even be far more.
Andy
I don't see what Orthodox practice has to do with it. Treating others with respect is not a habit exclusive to (or even more common among) Ortho folks.
The comment illustrates the dishonorable character and moral failings of that particular co-worker, nothing more or less.
Whoa, Nellie! Let me just say clarify one thing, for the record: The co-worker was a non-Jew.
Let me try this again, since, apparently, I didn't express myself very clearly. Perhaps it would help if I repeated my opening sentence: "One of my commenters has been known to kvetch that, for all my complaints about Orthodox Judaism's faults, Orthodoxy still offers a wonderful lifestyle that helps one avoid some of the more egregious excesses of the secular culture." My point was precisely that my co-worker's nonchalant attitude toward marital infidelity was a manifestation of "some of the more egregious excesses of the secular culture."
Respectful behavior isn't the exclusive property of Orthodox Judaism (quoth this Conservative Jew), or of Judaism. I guess my commenter's point, and mine, is there's something to be said for following a "behavioral road map."
Jewish law governing marital behavior absolutely discourages the excesses of secular society and helps contribute to that family bond. So many secular couples fall into ruts, stop being intimate, and start drifting apart... Orthodox families get reunited monthly and remember their desire for each other. The separation of genders, even in non-extreme MO fashions, helps discourage stupid behavior, like affairs with your friends... In MO communities, people may sit family style in non-synagogue settings, but you don't see the heavy mingling between men and women... they may have friendships, but they'll rarely be alone together.
Plenty of scum bag Orthodox Jews as well, but the culture is designed to discourage that anti-social marital behavior.
The issur yichud, the prohibition against a man and a woman being alone together unless they’re married to one another or are close family members, certainly serves as a preventative measure against licentious behavior. As with shmirat negiah, observance of the prohibition against physical contact between members of the opposite sex unless they’re married to one another or are close family members, it takes some of the pressure off the individual to prevent uncomfortable situations that might lead to improper behavior—a person can always cite halachah/Jewish religious law to get out of situations in which they might find themselves literally too close for comfort.
No system is perfect--shmirat negiah, for example, can be quite challenging, especially for older singles--but these kinds of preventive measures are intended to help maintain the sanctity of marriage and prevent abuse of individuals.
Standards of tzniut (modesty) in dress, provided that these standards are not taken to an extreme, can also help prevent abuse of the individual. I would think that there would be far less motivation to stare at something that's literally under cover than something that's out there for everyone to see. Again, some pressure can be taken off the individual if halachah can be cited--I know from personal experience that non-Orthodox women who try to dress in a modest manner are occasionally accused of being prudish, whereas modest dress is just considered standard in the Orthodox community.
The separation of genders, even in non-extreme MO fashions, helps discourage stupid behavior, like affairs with your friends... In MO communities, people may sit family style in non-synagogue settings, but you don't see the heavy mingling between men and women... they may have friendships, but they'll rarely be alone together.
Don't try to fool yourself for one minute that the separation prevents anything. It is a fantasy.
Jack, there will always be those who succumb to temptation, but it might be easier for more people to resist if it's not dangled in front of one's face. Mind you, I think that *extreme* separation is a mistake, as it encourages a "forbidden fruit" response, in my opinion, but it can't hurt to follow a law saying that a man and woman aren't allowed to be alone in a private place together unless they're married to one another or close family members. This is one case in which an "open door" policy, or a door with a glass window, can prove a major discouragement to improper behavior. Not too many people want to be "caught in the act."
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